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> La dirigenza Disney, decisioni, pensieri e strategie dei piani alti di Burbank
Beast
messaggio 12/4/2010, 18:25
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Apro questo topic per parlare delle strategie societarie della Disney. Credo sia un'idea utile per chi, come me, è interessato a cercare di capire come funzionano i meccanismi interni della compagnia e cosa si inventano i neuroni di Iger eheheh.gif

Partiamo proprio da Bob Iger. Il New York Times ha pubblicato la scorsa settimana un suo ampio ritratto, incentrato sulle sue decisioni in parecchi settori. Visto che ultimamente ci siamo trovati tutti molto in disaccordo con le sue scelte, è un'occasione per capire le sue motivazioni e i possibili scenari per il futuro. E' un po' lungo da leggere, ma ne vale la pena; ho tradotto ed evidenziato in neretto le frasi che mi hanno colpito di più.

Riassunto delle parti in neretto:
Iger viene definito in breve 'Blockbuster CEO' (vi ricordo che il CEO è l'amministratore delegato), quindi capiamo quanto conti la qualità nei suoi piani dry.gif

Frase di Iger piuttosto sinistra sulla ABC, rispondendo ad un azionista: 'Non ci sono garanzie su cosa che rimarrà parte della nostra compagnia e cosa no'. Ma che, adesso mi scarica pure la ABC? Va detto che quest'anno è scesa al quarto posto tra le quattro maggiori emittenti Usa.

Frasi ancora più sinistre, che traduco letteralmente: 'Abbiamo la reputazione di essere innovativi, almeno nel nostro campo, ma penso che possiamo fare ancora meglio'. 'Il bagaglio della tradizione', dice della cultura Disney, 'può rallentarti. Io non ho intenzione di eliminarla (E ci mancherebbe testa di ..., ndt), ma mi piacerebbe ridurla significativamente.'

Rallegriamoci un po' perchè Iger è contento dell'Italia (ma va? Noi però no). E' rimasto stupito quando ha saputo che il programma n.1 sul disney channel nostrano non era Hannah Montana, bensì 'Il mondo di Patty', che lui non aveva mai sentito nominare. E' stato affascinato dal successo avuto e soprattutto dal format, cioè telenovela giornaliera di 50 minuti anzichè singolo episodio settimanale di 25 minuti. Perciò si è fatto subito spedire un dvd con la serie (Ecco dunque cosa fa tutto il giorno nel suo ufficio e perchè si è rimbecillito così tanto eheheh.gif )

Ultima nota: Iger ha messo mano personalmente alla colonna sonora del World of Color, l'attessimo spettacolo di giochi di luce e acqua che debutterà al Disney's California Adventure a giugno (per capirci è l'attrazione più attesa dell'anno a Disneyland). Sembra infatti che le canzoni scelte per lo spettacolo non fossero abbastanza moderne (quindi suppongo che abbia sostituito When you wish upon a star con Best of Both Worlds)


Is Disney’s Chief Having a Cinderella Moment?
LATE February at the world’s largest media conglomerate was a particularly challenging time for Robert A. Iger: problems were sprouting all around him.

On a Friday, staffers gave Mr. Iger, the chief executive of the Walt Disney Company, a 30-minute rundown of final plans for a new multimillion-dollar attraction at the Disneyland Resort. He hated it.

By Monday, a British theater chain had stepped up threats to boycott “Alice in Wonderland” over Mr. Iger’s decision to fast-track the film’s DVD release. And then, at about 1 a.m. on Wednesday, he got an e-mail message: “URGENT: Dancing Mickey.” A new electronic toy, a boogie-woogie Mickey Mouse, had encountered a hiccup, threatening its availability for Christmas.

In each case, Mr. Iger found a solution, sometimes cajoling his people to do more and sometimes intervening more directly. “I like our people to solve problems on their own, and they usually do,” he says later. “But I will do a deep dive if there is a lot at stake or if there are creative challenges.”

Deep is not a word that most people used to describe Mr. Iger when he took control of Disney five years ago. In fact, he was widely dismissed as little more than a stuffed suit who might have had the skills to fix a highly dysfunctional company but lacked creative sizzle or big-picture brilliance to raise its game. His predecessor Michael D. Eisner endorsed him, but faintly — at least according to “DisneyWar,” the 2005 book that chronicled Mr. Eisner’s fall from power.

The new take on Mr. Iger? Let us count the ways: One of the most aggressive dealmakers in media (the $7 billion purchase of Pixar, the animation studio, and the $4 billion acquisition of Marvel, the comic book publisher and movie studio); a risk-taker who isn’t afraid to make decisions that rankle Disney’s own troops (ripping apart the wiring for how the company does business in Europe); and a guy who, more than any of his big-media counterparts, is retooling antiquated industry practice, particularly when it comes to movie-making.

In short: blockbuster C.E.O.

“The spectrum of points of view this job requires is incredible, and Bob is great at it,” says Steven P. Jobs, Apple’s chief executive, who became Disney’s largest shareholder — and a board member — after the Pixar acquisition. He said that the quality of Disney’s products had improved, adding: “The amount of energy and passion at Disney has increased dramatically. The business lines were really in boxes before Bob empowered them.”

Mr. Iger, 58, has wasted little time enacting major changes at Disney. A reorganization of the company’s movie studio last fall brought the departure of over a dozen top managers — including the unit’s popular chairman, Dick Cook. Mr. Iger shocked Hollywood by installing a television executive as his replacement.

Shortly after that, when recession-battered retailers were still cutting back, Mr. Iger went the other way, unveiling an aggressive plan to overhaul the 340 Disney Stores at a cost of about $1 million each. A month later, Mr. Iger had his C.F.O. and the head of Disney’s $12 billion theme park division swap their jobs.

Mr. Iger also isn’t shy about playing hardball to guard Disney’s wallet. It was his call last month to yank ABC’s broadcast of the Academy Awards off of Cablevision to win retransmission payments.

Mr. Iger said in an interview last week that he didn’t feel a need to unload ABC, as some have suggested, but he was less definitive when a shareholder asked at Disney’s annual meeting last month. “There are no guarantees in terms of what will remain part of our company and what will not,” he answered.

As he continues juggling the dizzying number of corporate and financial balls that Disney has in the air at any given moment, Mr. Iger has won over a dedicated group of cheerleaders.

“He’s not constantly trying to show you how smart he is, and that is a very important trait in Hollywood, where you’ve got to rely on talent who consider themselves the center of the universe,” says Warren E. Buffett, the Berkshire Hathaway chairman, who has known Mr. Iger since helping to finance the Capital Cities takeover of ABC in the mid-1980s.

“Bob is the type of guy you want to help,” Mr. Buffett adds. “When he calls I don’t spend time thinking, ‘How do I tell this guy no?’ It’s, ‘How do I tell this guy yes?’ And I don’t feel that way about many people.”

Even Wall Street, that never-satisfied beast, seems newly pleased at Disney’s direction. Net income for Disney’s fiscal 2009 fell 25 percent, to $3.3 billion, as a result of the recession and problems at the movie studio.

But after several notable upgrades from analysts and a nascent recovery at the studio — “Alice in Wonderland” has earned about $675 million at the global box office — Disney’s stock price has perked up in recent weeks. It now trades at $36.22, an 81 percent increase from a year earlier.

“Bob has done the opposite of muddling through,” says Mr. Eisner. “He has managed the company aggressively and been steady in a very stormy time.”

But Mr. Eisner does have some advice: As Mr. Iger continues to mature, he must never “allow arrogance to overpower him like it does many C.E.O.’s.”

Words of wisdom, but easier said than done.

MR. IGER, of course, hasn’t had a perfect reign, and Disney faces some particularly tough challenges ahead.
Some senior executives at the company contend that their precise and deliberate chief waited far too long to put changes into effect at the movie studio, which had hewed to old-fashioned marketing strategies and suffered a string of flops like “Surrogates” and “Confessions of a Shopaholic.”

Disney has big video-game ambitions, spending at least $180 million developing the segment last year alone. But Mr. Iger has at times appeared indecisive about the company’s approach.

The consumer products division argued that it should run video games; the Internet division, already managing online role-playing worlds like Club Penguin (which Mr. Iger bought for about $700 million in 2007), felt that gaming was its turf. First, Mr. Iger ruled in favor of consumer products. Then he reversed his decision, ultimately moving video games to the Internet group.

The Internet group, meanwhile, is emerging as a trouble spot, analysts say. Competitors crow that some recent efforts — like a “Pirates of the Caribbean” online world — have been failures.

So when it comes to online innovation, is Disney really moving fast enough? Mr. Jobs sidesteps that question. “Bob is the most aggressive in his industry,” he says. “Consumer behavior is changing, and Bob gets that more than anybody else.” But is Disney moving fast enough on the Web? “That’s not my place to say,” Mr. Jobs demurs.

The Marvel acquisition has posed its own challenges. Betting that the brooding Marvel characters would deepen its hold on boys — long an area of weakness for Disney — Mr. Iger paid about $50 a share for the company, a 29 percent premium. Some analysts were notably cool to the news. “Over the long run, we suspect this will be viewed as Mr. Iger’s first major mistake as C.E.O.,” wrote a Citigroup analyst, Jason Bazinet, at the time of the acquisition.

Since then, there has been friction between Isaac Perlmutter, the Marvel chief executive who is staying on, and Disney’s consumer products division over how best to integrate two very different approaches.

Hollywood, familiar with Mr. Perlmutter’s penchant for ruling his roost, has started to whisper: Will he turn into Mr. Iger’s version of Harvey Weinstein, the hard-charging Miramax co-founder who caused Mr. Eisner so many headaches after Disney acquired the little studio? Mr. Perlmutter declined to be interviewed.

Disney is a huge company, with more than 140,000 employees spread over businesses as disparate as ESPN and time-share condos. All of this brings the company $36 billion in annual revenue and a market capitalization of about $70 billion. So new headaches are a daily event.

Mr. Iger constantly has to contend with the big-picture questions, like how people will consume media in the future and how a mature, enormous company grows. But it’s the middle-tier stuff that can become time-consuming.

ABC, for instance, has fallen to fourth place among the Big Four broadcast networks (third place, in front of NBC, if you exclude sports). Disney’s animation studio is still struggling despite improvements made by the Pixar brain trust. And its Winnie the Pooh character, which delivers $5 billion annually in retail sales, is showing some wear and tear, and efforts to return the character to prominence, notably a Disney Channel show, have failed.

Disney and Mr. Iger dispute much of this criticism, particularly when it comes to Marvel. “Ike’s been great,” Mr. Iger says of Mr. Perlmutter. “The integration has gone well, and the potential has exceeded my expectations.” In terms of video games, Mr. Iger said he had concluded that gaming of all kinds should be managed in a cohesive way by the Internet group, adding that the company’s approach to the business continues to evolve.

But he also says there is another crucial issue on his fix-it list.

“We get credit for being innovative, at least in our space, but I think we can be even better,” he says over breakfast at the Lanesborough hotel in London. He complains that in-house lawyers can at times be overly aggressive, that instead of simply advising business units, they are too often making decisions.

“The baggage of tradition,” he says of Disney’s culture, “can slow you down.”

“I’m not going to eliminate that,” he added, “but I’d like to reduce it significantly.”


MR. IGER started his media career in 1972 as the host of “Campus Probe,” an Ithaca College television show. He dreamed of becoming a news anchor but got a job as a weatherman instead. Realizing that he wasn’t very good at it, he took a production job in 1974 at ABC, where he says his first boss informed him that he was “unpromotable.”

He quickly found another job inside the network and sped up the ranks. In 1985, when he was vice president of sports programming, Capital Cities Communications bought ABC — a takeover that ended up shaping his business philosophy. The new owners took a relaxed approach, preserving ABC’s culture and approaching integration with respect and patience.
The positive lessons from that experience — and some from Disney’s own eventual acquisition of Capital Cities-ABC — helped Mr. Iger woo the Pixar camp, rebuilding a relationship damaged by repeated clashes between Mr. Eisner and the animation studio.

Corporate courtship, it turns out, is one of Mr. Iger’s specialties. He used the same skills to win over Mr. Perlmutter in striking the Marvel deal. (For a long time, Disney couldn’t even get a meeting with Marvel.)

In November, Mr. Iger secured the Chinese government’s approval to build a Disney World-style theme park in Shanghai, realizing one of Disney’s longtime goals.

And, last year, Mr. Iger played a star role in luring Steven Spielberg to the Magic Kingdom. Mr. Spielberg’s company, DreamWorks Studios, will release its films through Disney starting early next year.

Mr. Iger, who is married to the television journalist Willow Bay, dislikes pomp and circumstance. Often waking at 4:30 a.m., he drives himself to work and coaches his son’s basketball games on weekends.

He has always exhibited a casual charm. When he graduated from high school in Oceanside, N.Y., he was voted both “most enthusiastic” and “friendliest.” Told that he had to pick one, he went with the first. (A more recent claim to fame: WowOWow.com, a site created and run by Whoopi Goldberg and 15 friends, chose him as one of the 10 sexiest businessmen over 50.)

Stacey Snider, the chief executive of DreamWorks and a partner in it with Mr. Spielberg, says Mr. Iger’s likability had little to do with her boutique studio’s decision to align itself with Disney. Ms. Snider says that what really mattered was Mr. Iger’s enthusiastic embrace of the changes washing across the film industry: pushing for shifts in how DVDs are released, recalibrating marketing spending from old media to new, building movies around brands and franchises.

“In a very competitive landscape, you need to be with the sharpest, most forward-thinking, most risk-taking people you can,” says Ms. Snider. “Bob’s approach is, ‘How do we make the 22nd-century version of a media company?’ ”

Quite a few people in Hollywood think that Mr. Iger’s all-or-nothing approach at Walt Disney Studios may be too much too quickly. But Ms. Snider disagrees. “This is a legacy business,” she says with a sigh, “and whenever someone challenges that legacy, you have pushback.”

DISNEY’S approach to changes in Europe is classic Bob Iger: watch, learn, wait, pounce.

About a decade ago, when Mr. Iger directly oversaw international operations, he was charged with increasing per capita spending on Disney products, whether movies or bed sheets, in various countries in Latin America. He decided, essentially, to make the region autonomous. Decisions about how best to market Mickey to Argentina or what Disney Channel programs made sense in Brazil would no longer come only from headquarters in Burbank, Calif.

The experiment was a huge success, but Mr. Iger worried that replicating the structure elsewhere — namely, in a giant market like Europe — would be too radical. Until last spring.

Disney, preoccupied with emerging markets, had come to view Europe as a mature part of its business. But Mr. Iger, who has made international growth a priority, decided that adopting a more nimble operating structure in the region could unlock more value. He drastically reorganized European operations, using Latin America as a blueprint.

Some senior executives in Burbank, digesting the news that they had just lost oversight of an enormous portion of their portfolio, were miffed. Mr. Iger acknowledges some internal unrest but says it has dissipated. “I do think it’s working,” he says. “I sense a big change in the speed of decision making and the strategic focus.

“Burbank has gone from support, interest and curiosity to dread, fear and ‘oh my goodness’ to now, I think, acceptance,” he adds.

In late February, Mr. Iger flew to London for a progress report. In one 90-minute meeting at Disney’s sleek Hammersmith office tower in London, Mr. Iger — in shirt sleeves, his hands folded behind his head — listened intently. The presentations focused on Disney Channel plans in various European countries and how specific markets were weaving Facebook into their marketing strategies.

Of the 35 managers at the meeting, about half had been given new titles and responsibilities within the last few months.

Mr. Iger peppered his team with questions about Italy, a country that marked Disney’s arrival in Europe in the 1930s with a children’s magazine, Topolino, that featured Mickey Mouse. He wanted to know why the No. 1 program on Italy’s Disney Channel wasn’t a franchise like “Hannah Montana” but a program he had never heard about before — “Il Mondo di Patty,” a telenovela-style program for children about an Argentine girl. Local programmers had decided to give this inexpensive show a shot — and they hit pay dirt.

Most children’s shows are 30 minutes, run weekly and have single-episode storylines. Telenovelas are daily soap operas with evolving plots. Mr. Iger was intrigued by the format, and an animated conversation ensued about what other markets — including the United States — might be ripe for such a series.

“It’s important that Disney’s products are presented in ways that are culturally relevant,” Mr. Iger says, happy that the Italian Disney Channel was experimenting with different genres. He asked an assistant to send a DVD of the series to his office.

Next up was a report about a new ad-buying system, called Disney Media Plus, that was successful in Latin America and was moving to Europe. Essentially, the system allows advertisers to tailor their marketing to demographics — say, teenage girls in France — across multiple Disney businesses.

“It should work pretty well,” says the person making the presentation.

“It should?” Mr. Iger asks with grin.

“It will,” the manager responds.

THE next morning, Mr. Iger is relaxed — or as relaxed as a perpetual motion machine ever is. And the three problems that engulfed him over the last few days had been solved.

That Disneyland attraction, a high-tech water show set to music called World of Color (think the Bellagio fountains in Las Vegas on steroids), was being reworked. He felt that the attraction over all was outstanding, but he worried that the music was all wrong. So he had written notes about each song on how to make the show more modern.

“Ninety-five percent of the decisions made at the company are made by other people,” he says. “But this is a big show, and I felt opportunities were being lost.”

The standoff with Odeon Cinemas, the theater chain threatening to boycott “Alice in Wonderland,” was over; Mr. Iger had paid a personal visit to Odeon’s chief executive to explain Disney’s position on the DVD release.

Even Dancing Mickey had become a distant worry; the manufacturing difficulty had proved to be a false alarm.

So Mr. Iger takes a rare morning off. He goes to a small museum housing Winston Churchill’s bomb-proof, World War II bunker, and receives a private tour from Churchill’s granddaughter. He touches the maps hanging on the walls and sits in Churchill’s chair.

This is a treat: Churchill is one of Mr. Iger’s heroes. When Mr. Iger was 12, a family friend carved a wooden figurine of the prime minister for him, and it still sits prominently on his desk.

“Churchill balanced heritage and innovation,” Mr. Iger says later, at the black-tie premiere of “Alice in Wonderland.” “There are big lessons in that for Disney. Our brand is so powerful because of our heritage. But you’ve got to innovate, and not just in terms of what is new today but what will be new far into the future.”






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Beast
messaggio 20/1/2012, 16:34
Messaggio #2


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CITAZIONE (Scissorhands @ 20/1/2012, 1:04) *
Quindi Spielberg non è stato proprio interpellato?E io che credevo che il nuovo responsabile fosse stato scelto proprio perchè suggerito da lui (avendo fatto un ottimo lavoro con the Help)

Ma infatti, proprio per questo motivo pensavo che la scelta gli fosse gradita. Comunque il leggere sul giornale una notizia che dovresti sapere prima degli altri farebbe arrabbiare chiunque, quindi non dò torti a Spielberg.
La mia impressione esterna è che la Disney stia volutamente cercando di staccarsi dalla Dreamworks (per vari motivi: i tanti flop quali Numero 4, Fright Night e Real Steel, le lamentele di Spielberg sullo scarso marketing di War Horse, il fatto che il calendario delle uscite del 2012 non esista ancora, ora questa lite). Una volta rotto il contratto con la DW, Iger potrà tranquillamente vendere il marchio Touchstone. Tristemente tutto torna. Vedremo, intanto la mancanza del calendario 2012 mi fa temere annunci prossimi.


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Claudio
messaggio 20/1/2012, 16:36
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CITAZIONE (Beast @ 20/1/2012, 16:34) *
Ma infatti, proprio per questo motivo pensavo che la scelta gli fosse gradita. Comunque il leggere sul giornale una notizia che dovresti sapere prima degli altri farebbe arrabbiare chiunque, quindi non dò torti a Spielberg.
La mia impressione esterna è che la Disney stia volutamente cercando di staccarsi dalla Dreamworks (per vari motivi: i tanti flop quali Numero 4, Fright Night e Real Steel, le lamentele di Spielberg sullo scarso marketing di War Horse, il fatto che il calendario delle uscite del 2012 non esista ancora, ora questa lite). Una volta rotto il contratto con la DW, Iger potrà tranquillamente vendere il marchio Touchstone. Tristemente tutto torna. Vedremo, intanto la mancanza del calendario 2012 mi fa temere annunci prossimi.


già, tutto torna, ma spero che non succeda, perchè non trovo giusto vendere questo marchio not.gif


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Il Forziere dei Classici Disney in Dvd: una grande fregatura! CONDIVIDI:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZLEjXBac3E
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- Beast   La dirigenza Disney   12/4/2010, 18:25
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|- - GasGas   CITAZIONE (cartoni @ 28/4/2010, 11:46) Fr...   28/4/2010, 14:25
|- - cartoni   QUOTE (GasGas @ 28/4/2010, 15:25) azz e l...   29/4/2010, 12:08
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- - giagia   RE: La dirigenza Disney   7/10/2011, 20:52
- - Beast   CITAZIONE (giagia @ 7/10/2011, 21:52)   8/10/2011, 13:56
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|- - winnie & pimpi   QUOTE (Scissorhands @ 22/1/2012, 21:15) I...   22/1/2012, 23:13
|- - Zio Paperone   CITAZIONE (Scissorhands @ 22/1/2012, 20:1...   9/10/2012, 19:06
- - Claudio   CITAZIONE (Scissorhands @ 22/1/2012, 19:1...   23/1/2012, 20:41
- - winnie & pimpi   articolo interessante: fonte: http://fumettologic...   17/9/2012, 11:02
- - Beast   Un altro scossone nel reparto marketing. Rotola la...   9/10/2012, 8:46
- - Enrico   L'attimo fuggente è un capolavoro... e non ca...   10/10/2012, 10:35
- - nunval   Touchstone è Touchstone e Disney e Disney, io non...   10/10/2012, 11:27
|- - Prince Philip   CITAZIONE (nunval @ 10/10/2012, 12:27) To...   10/10/2012, 12:31
- - Beast   Jack Dorsey, co-fondatore di Twitter, è entrato n...   24/12/2013, 11:57
- - Beast   Secondo Nikki Finke (che è tornata blogger a pien...   13/6/2014, 9:02
|- - manci79   Speriamo Tom Staggs, brava persona!   14/6/2014, 8:22
- - Beast   Rispetto alle ultime news: come non detto! Con...   3/10/2014, 10:21
|- - Capitano Amelia   CITAZIONE (Beast @ 3/10/2014, 11:21) Cons...   4/10/2014, 12:07
- - Simba88   Yuhhuu!!!!!   3/10/2014, 11:16
- - Angelo1985   Della serie continuiamo con l'imbastardimento ...   4/10/2014, 15:52
|- - Scrooge McDuck   CITAZIONE (Angelo1985 @ 4/10/2014, 16:52)...   5/10/2014, 19:00
- - Angelo1985   La Cina Scrooge, mi riferisco alla Cina, un Paese ...   5/10/2014, 19:05
- - Beast   Breaking News: Tom Staggs è il nuovo COO (Chief O...   6/2/2015, 9:40
- - Beast   Bob Chapek è il nuovo presidente della Parks and ...   25/2/2015, 10:31
- - Logan232   Mh.. e chi c'è a capo della divisione Home En...   25/2/2015, 11:18
- - Beast   CITAZIONE (Logan232 @ 25/2/2015, 11:18) M...   25/2/2015, 14:38
- - Logan232   Se non sbaglio è quello il periodo in cui l'E...   25/2/2015, 15:13
- - Beast   CITAZIONE (Logan232 @ 25/2/2015, 15:13) S...   25/2/2015, 16:19
- - Scrooge McDuck   Bisogna sempre tenere a mente però che non tutta ...   25/2/2015, 22:40
- - Beast   Il CFO Jay Rasulo Lascia la Disney Dopo quasi tre...   4/6/2015, 7:30
- - Beast   NEWS SHOCK: Tom Staggs lascia la Disney. Il candid...   5/4/2016, 20:09
- - Angelo1985   Non vedo l'ora se ne vada Iger e mi auguro che...   5/4/2016, 21:10
|- - LucaDopp   CITAZIONE (Angelo1985 @ 5/4/2016, 22:10) ...   5/4/2016, 21:49
- - Angelo1985   Mi spiace informarti solo ora, ma il nome di Walt ...   5/4/2016, 22:20
|- - LucaDopp   CITAZIONE (Angelo1985 @ 5/4/2016, 23:20) ...   6/4/2016, 0:05
|- - Simba88   CITAZIONE (Angelo1985 @ 5/4/2016, 23:20) ...   6/4/2016, 8:23
- - Grrodon   Di sciocchezze. Non ha senso ridurre in due parol...   6/4/2016, 0:36
- - brigo   Sicuramente non inseriranno un idealista, o un art...   6/4/2016, 9:17
|- - LucaDopp   Poi io sono anche d'accordo sul fatto che Iger...   6/4/2016, 10:50
- - Fra X   Solo un anno c'è stato!   6/4/2016, 12:58
- - kekkomon   E' grave?   6/4/2016, 13:44
- - Beast   CITAZIONE (brigo @ 6/4/2016, 9:17) Chiame...   6/4/2016, 18:10
|- - LucaDopp   CITAZIONE (Beast @ 6/4/2016, 19:10) Se no...   6/4/2016, 18:48
- - Angelo1985   Iniziassero a mangiare di meno loro, con l'att...   6/4/2016, 21:43
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